Posted by: nathanfinn | May 5, 2008

Dispatches from the Cage Stage

There are few things more frightening than a collegian or seminarian who has just recently become a Calvinist. I well remember sitting in Russ Moore’s class and hearing him refer to new Calvinists as being in the “cage stage.” He said something to the effect that neophyte Calvinists need to be locked in a cage for a couple of years and permitted to bounce off the walls until they are able to be released into normal society. I have also heard Mark Dever reference the “cage stage,” though I’m not sure who picked up the phrase from whom. I frequently use the phrase in class.

Anyway, I bumped into three of my students this weekend at a community event in Wake Forest. Two of them are Calvinists and one of them is a self-avowed Classical Arminian. They were regaling me with stories about another student who, according to them, is in the cage stage. They believe this brother means well, but they are convinced he cannot have a conversation without talking about supralapsarianism, particular atonement, and covenant theology. They often have to ask him to chill out and stand down–especially the Arminian! ;-)

Then they told me about a couple of freshman who have recently embraced the doctrines of grace and are now devoting themselves to the full-time ministry of defending God’s prerogatives against all Arminians, Molinists, Amyrauldians, and Anabaptists. One of them was waxing eloquent the other day about how God created evil because he is sovereign. One of my Calvinist students pointed out that, in Genesis, God declares the finished creation to be very good. The verdict? Captain Cageman says that the Bible is wrong because the serpent was in the garden. Nice.

I have plenty of stories of my own. I have heard many students–I mean a lot of students–argue that there is no such thing as a “four-point Calvinist.” I have heard a person or two go so far as to argue that a four-point Calvinist (so-called, of course) is really an Arminian. Oh, and don’t get me started on what some of them say about real Arminians. Of course, even some Calvinists who are not in the cage stage have a hard time accurately representing Arminian theology. Even in their books. And blogs. And sermons. And conference talks. And teaching series. But I digress.

Back to my students this weekend. When one of my Calvinist students was bemoaning the terrors of his cage-worthy comrades, I suggested he start a blog. He could call it “Dispatches from the Cage Stage” and regale the blogosphere with the outrageous things new Calvinists say. His generic cage-stage Calvinist could be named John, because all the famous Calvinists are named John. But this John will be the representative John, an amalgamation of every student who has ever briefly become unbearable because of his newfound devotion to Reformational theology. The student was amused by my suggestion, but he didn’t bite. Alas.

For my part, I think the idea has legs. So I am suggesting it for whoever wants to pick it up, provided that you yourself are a Calvinist and are trying to be helpful rather than hurtful. It may even provide some post-cage-stage therapy for some intrepid Reformed blogger.  I also suggest cage-stage franchise blogs that are devoted to students who embrace “contemporary” worship music for the first time, become convinced of the continuation of miraculous gifts for the first time, read N. T. Wright for the first time, or decide that they are cool enough to embrace one or more of the emerging movements.

Responses

Speaking as a non-seminarian who may be in the “cage-stage” (I have only embraced the Doctrines of Grace within the last 6 or 7 months) I think these stories would be an interesting read….should someone choose to take up the task.

I always laugh when I hear “4-point Calvinist” (or 3, or whatever). It’s like saying a “2-point trinitarian”.

And I agree about the cage stage. I don’t think I was ever there since I came to that table late in life (well .. late compared to guys in your generation).

I recall one guy regaling everyone else one time, asked why he was so high-pressure and obnoxious, to which he replied that he wanted everyone to feel the joy he did. I told him if I had ANY of the kind of joy he was having, he could have it back.

Ahhh….the good old days in college when I became a Calvinist. Unfortunately, I converted more people to Calvinism than I did Christianity, a fact I am less than proud of. I sympathize with the cage stagers and it would do me well to read a blog that reminded me what not to be.

Good post.

Bob, you are a riot.

NAF

Funny stuff. When I went to SBTS in 02, I was already Calvinistic in my theology and had been since coming to Christ in 1992 in a solidly 5-point Calvinist church. I had already pastored for 6+ years and learned to be gracious over the issue upon arriving at Southern.

I was absolutely floored by the attitudes of those neophytes who were just reading Calvin and MacArthur for the first time. It truly is almost comical to see them go through the phase of exalting Calvin over Christ. Ok…it’s not “ha-ha” funny, but it is really amazing. I quit trying to convince everyone of the doctrines of Grace in about 1993, as soon as I read Packer’s “Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God” and realized how complicated an issue these doctrines really are.

I hope someone takes you up on the site offer… that would be hysterical.

Terry

I remember well the cage-stage. I was one of the most obnoxious and arrogant Calvinists on planet earth. To me, Arminianism was a theology for those less-enlightened.

Now that I’m on the other side (or the Dark Side — the force is strong with this one), I know what it feels like to be accosted by guys like I used to be; it stinks. But God is teaching me grace :)

I think every “converted” Calvinist should have to receive counsel for at least two months by a seasoned and well balanced Calvinist before engaging the rest of society. It would at least save them from having to look back with embarrassment over foolish and rash statements they made to their brothers and sisters in Christ who disagree with them theologically.

Thank you for this post. Because I’m slightly narcissistic, I think you wrote this for MY benefit.

Billy

Interesting conversation. I’ve always wondered where this phenomenon comes from. When certain brands of theology move a person to wholesale neighbor hate, it’s hard to imagine it’s from God.

Of course, I had a ‘cage sage’ when I switched from blogger to WordPress . . .

This is a riot, but could seriously be helpful. I’ve often said that if you want to see a Calvinist look like an Arminian, watch when he does his “Calvangelism”. He’s always “pressing for a decision” on the doctrines of grace.

Coming to believe the doctrines of grace while a member of a non-calvinistic mega church might even be more interesting than while in seminary. Sadly, that’s the only example most of those people will ever see, and it’s often so disturbing. I don’t think I was too aggressive but I was naive. Like Luther going to see the Pope for the first time, I just assumed everyone would believe this if it was just properly explained. That was when I realized how totally uninterested most church attendees are in serious theology. They were happy with Max Lucado and The Message.

Bob, I would question the truth of your statement ridiculing four-point calvinism.

I understand the logic of limited atonement. However, I am convinced of God’s sovereignty in salvation because I read it in the scripture. I have trouble with limited atonement because I see too much biblical truth that seems to me to argue against it.

Two-point trinitarianism is logically inconsistent. However, I do not think I have to swallow the whole calvinist/reformed system to accept the sovereignty of God in salvation.

I don’t know if you were trying to be funny or were actually questioning the intelligence or integrity of four-pointers.

However, I try to form my doctrine from scripture, not from a creed or the dictates of a theological system.

I’ve started it. I haven’t written anything yet, but it is started.

Its at cagestage.wordpress.com

Is a cage stage calvinist the theological equivalent of a Mac fanboy? =)

When I was ‘converted’ at SEBTS, becoming a reformed theology guy (around 2002), I happily admit I did not go through a cagestage. My whole goal was for nobody to find out about my beliefs. I had come from staunch anti-calvinist churches and the thought of never being able to find a church to minister in (because of my new beliefs) haunted me. I guess I incubated during that time and came out a little more gracious and have never attempted to ‘convert’ anyone. I’m content with simply answering questions if someone asks.

Dave,
I think what Bob might be saying is that a Calvinist by definition would affirm the 5 points. You might like to just say you “affirm four points TULIP” leaving Calvin out of it.

Nathan,

Like a few who have posted already, I came to an understanding and acceptance of the doctrines of grace later in life (mid 30s), so thanks be to God I believe I have been spared many of the worst elements of the cage stage.

Having grown up in a SBC megachurch pastored by two of the architects of the CR (both of whom were/are decidedly anti-Calvinist), I have had love for my non-Calvinist brethren drilled into me since my earliest childhood. This makes it more difficult for me to speak in Calvinist polemics to people I have grown to love even though I disagree with their understanding of soteriology.

God has also given me an overwhelming burden for lost souls. He does not really permit me much time for engaging in debates/arguments/blog wars/conferences/etc. regarding the doctrines of grace. For me, this is all settled business and my time is best spent on the work that God HAS put before me. As one of my former pastor’s used to say “God said it, I believe it and that settles it”. For me, “God said it and that settles it” is good enough.

I am also thankful to God for the preaching and ministry of brother Paul Washer. I got turned on to his sermons last year and within the first few minutes of listening whatever pride I was carrying around in my knowledge of reformed theology was cut to quick!!! For the few who have not heard, Paul Washer is a missionary from FBC Muscle Shoals who affirms the doctrines of grace yet challenges anyone who is so full of themselves in their knowledge of Calvinism that they forget their Matthew 28 mandate!!!!

So whenever I run into a collegiate or seminarian who has just recently read MacArthur or Pink or Calvin and is all wound up, I tell them to go listen to some Paul Washer and read some Arminius, Wesley, Keith Green or Ben Witherington. THEN we can sit down and talk about the doctrines of grace once he truly understands the Arminian view.

[...] This is a blog started due to the suggestion of Nathan A. Finn. A “cage stage” Calvinist is one who is new and unbearable. The phrase came from the [...]

Nathan,

I believe there is (some) wisdom in this blog and I think all of us need to know when we need to give someone a break to digest these (doctrines) of those we are trying to convince. (However), this phrase ” Cage Stage ” is a phrase unfortunately some seminary leaders use (I believe) because (they might not) want their seminary viewed as a Baptistic Calvinistic seminary and want to be marketable to all SBC potential candidates.

I would like our younger brethren to understand what Nathan is saying: If the five points of calvinism are Biblical which they are then you need not apologize for them. They magnify God . Let no one tell you differently !!! Use good common sense for a moment . It is never wrong to emphasize the grace of God in salvation but it is wrong to look down on others who don’t see it yet. If you can honestly say that you are trying to show another Christian these truths because (You really) want them to rejoice in Christ then don’t let this post or anyone from discouraging you. Don’t let these words bother you” You seem more committed to John Calvin” than you do to Jesus Christ. I usually say that I like John Gill better any way(Ha Ha).This was echoed at SBTS to students at one time.

I believe Nathan is showing us there are times when we need to back off but it’s not wrong in any way to show the work of God in salvation to the praise of His name. Sadly, some of our Calvinist leaders in the SBC want some of you younger guys to (Calm down) because it brings heat on them and this is a fact. Sorry we have compromised on this at times. If it is OK for the avg Southern Baptist to pound people over the head about tithing, how many did you have at outreach or Sunday School, how many prayed the sinners prayer tonight with you at outreach, then it is certaintly OK and then some to talk about the work of God in Salvation. Don’t you slow down preaching the gospel and letting Christians know correctly about the work of God in salvation but we all need to learn that there are other doctrines to be taught as well . However, Nathan is a big boy and I don’t speak for him but the question should always be ” What are your motives”.

Scott,
I have to respectfully disagree with you. I don’t think any of our Arminian/Molinist/Amyraldian/non-Calvinistic/etc etc etc brethren would say that they deny “the work of God in salvation” or the grace of God. The fact that we (Calvinists) act as if we hold a claim on the full understanding of the grace of God in salvation is a bit arrogant. Yes, I do believe that the five points are biblical and that they are most consistent with the biblical witness about salvation, but an Arminian is going to tell you the same thing. It is fine to discuss biblical ideas and even to show why you believe your position is more consistent with the Bible, but it is not ok to act as if we have the true light of understanding or that others still haven’t “seen the light”. The only one who understands God’s revelation completely and fully is the one who revealed it. I think part of the reason Calvinism is so reviled is because its proponents (myself included) sometimes act as if we have the one and only true understanding of the biblical witness. Yes I believe that my beliefs are well-grounded; yes I believe they are well-thought through; yes I believe they are consistent; but so do Drs. Little, Keathley, Yarnell, Akin, etc etc etc that do not hold to the five points of Calvinism. Therefore, for me to go to them and say that I need to “show them the work of God in salvation” and to “praise Him” as if they were completely blind to that before is, I think, the very definition of a cage stage Calvinist. Please forgive me if this comes off as rude or speaking without love; it is hard to convey these things with humility over a computer screen. I say this out of concern for my SBC brethren on all points of the ’salvation spectrum’ that are consistently talking at each other instead of loving one another.

Leave a response

Your response:

Categories