Posted by: nathanfinn | May 7, 2008

On Johnny Hunt and the SBC Presidency

In my opinion, there are now three viable candidates for SBC president. Wiley Drake has allegedly made it known he is willing to be nominated, but to my knowledge no one has stepped forward to take him up on it. Bill Wagner has been running an innovative campaign, but I only know one person who has said he might vote for him (and even he doesn’t know Wagner’s name, referring to him as “that missionary from California”). I do not believe either of these men to be viable candidates. I have also heard of at least one other individual whom I am reasonably confident will be nominated, but I doubt he will be a viable candidate in light of the present field of contenders. And of course Al Mohler would have been a viable candidate–perhaps the front-runner–but he backed out of the race for health reasons. So I think there are three viable candidates, at least at this point.

Evangelist Junior Hill announced several months ago that he is nominating Georgia pastor Frank Cox for president. Though he likely would not know me from Adam, I have spoken with Cox on at least three different occasions. He is a genuinely nice guy. He is a tireless champion of the Cooperative Program; I participated in a 1998 CP Summit he convened when he was president of the Georgia Baptist Convention. He has been a leader among Georgia Baptists for at least fifteen years–maybe longer. Cox has been a vice president of the SBC and, if rumors are true, has been considered for a number of denominational positions at one time or another. Many folks in Georgia think he will be the next executive director of the Georgia Baptist Convention. He would be a good SBC president.

It was announced today that Missouri pastor John Marshall is nominating retired IMB and LifeWay leader Avery Willis for president. Willis has made numerous contributions to SBC life. He is best known for authoring MasterLife, a discipleship program that has been used in thousands of local churches. His leadership at IMB is well-known and widely appreciated. His missionary experience is a definite plus; many Southern Baptists think it is high time that a long-term missionary serve as convention president (this is actually part of Bill Wagner’s rationale for running). Willis would be a good SBC president.

It was also announced today that Florida pastor Ted Traylor is nominating Georgia pastor Johnny Hunt for president. Hunt was widely considered a front-runner in both 2004 and 2006, though in the end he declined nomination during those years. Hunt is among the most well-known megachurch pastors in the SBC and is arguably the most prominent pastor among the second generation of conservative resurgers. Hunt has a reputation for being a pastor’s pastor because of his church’s mentorship program, the Barnabas-Timothy Conferences, and his one day Shepherd’s Conferences at SBC seminaries. He is also a regular speaker at various pastor’s conferences and evangelism conferences. He would be a good SBC president. In fact, I intend to vote for him in June. Consider this post my endorsement of his candidacy.

Some will argue that those employed by SBC agencies should not endorse candidates. I remain unconvinced. Though I am employed by Southeastern Seminary, I will be at the SBC as a messenger from the First Baptist Church of Durham, North Carolina. I see no compelling reason that SBC employees cannot publicly get behind presidential candidates. The fact is, there is strong historical precedent for not only public support of candidates but even nominations of candidates by convention employees, including agency heads. I see no problem with my endorsing Johnny Hunt.

Others will argue that we do not need another megachurch pastor to be SBC president. Fair enough–I have made that argument myself. But you still judge any field of potential presidents by voting for the best available option among the viable candidates. And as much as I would love to see a layman or pastor of a smaller church serve as convention president, it would have to be the right candidate. And I can think of few such would-be candidates whom I would vote for before I would vote for Johnny Hunt.

Still others will argue that Johnny Hunt is part of the good ole boys network that controls the SBC. I am sympathetic to this concern, but several things should be noted. First, strictly speaking, nobody controls the SBC except the majority of messengers at any given annual meeting. Second, there is nothing wrong with any group of people meeting together to draft their candidate for president. It happens every year. Finally, I’m not convinced that Hunt is the candidate of any good ole boys network. If anything, one could argue that the individuals who make up that nebulous group we call “SBC leaders” have shown they are not of one accord, with some behind Cox, some behind Hunt, and others behind Mohler before he pulled out of the race. And I think that’s healthy.

Some will argue that Hunt should not be president because his church gives only 2.2% of their undesignated receipts to the Cooperative Program. Two thoughts. First, the 10% ideal that has been bandied about so much in recent years is not helpful in a denomination where churches are increasingly bypassing that system and giving directly to Nashville, often because of poor stewardship by state conventions. Second, FBC Woodstock’s 2.2% comes out to $393,798. I’m guessing that is way more money given to the CP than 95% of the churches that give 10% or more. So it’s not like the good folks at FBC are thumbing their nose at the SBC. Baptist Press did not report the numbers, but I bet Hunt’s church gave a substantial amount directly to Nashville, individual seminaries, and/or the mission boards, in addition to the almost $400,000 given to the CP. Johnny Hunt financially supports the SBC.

Finally, some will be uncomfortable with Hunt because he has been a critic of Calvinism. In fact, some will think I am off my rocker for supporting him; after all, my theological convictions are widely known. So I think it would be a good idea to camp out here a bit.

First of all, I do not have a problem with Southern Baptists who are uncomfortable with Calvinism. It doesn’t bother me one iota that FBC Woodstock is hosting the John 3:16 Conference. The finer points of Calvinism (pun intended) is one of the two original debates among Baptist people (the other being the terms of communion). I think that Frank Page has shown that it is possible to be opposed to Calvinist theology and still be a great SBC president, even to all the Calvinists with whom he disagrees. I have no reason to suspect that Johnny Hunt would use his position to throw convention Calvinists under the bus.

Second, I know that many Calvinists do not like Hunt because he (allegedly) does not want to have staff members who are Calvinists. I cannot help but wonder how many of these Calvinists would be willing to hire a youth minister or associate pastor who is not a Calvinist. For the record, I personally see no reason why Calvinists and non-Calvinists cannot serve on the same church staff, assuming that the non-Calvinist is not an Arminian and the Calvinist is not more interested in the doctrines of grace than staff unity. But I respect any pastor’s right to desire a staff that is unified on this issue, whichever way that unity may go.

Third, many Calvinists (and some others) will look at FBC Woodstock’s membership statistics and note that there are about 10,000 members who are inactive. This is a fair criticism, but it is also a fair criticism of the vast majority of SBC churches. This is why there are two resolutions being offered this year that will call for Southern Baptists to take church membership more seriously. Instead of torching Hunt for his statistics, I see this as an opportunity to urge a prominent pastor to engage this issue and be a role model for other Southern Baptists. In other words, instead of criticizing Hunt, I am calling upon him to lead the way in our collective recovery of regenerate church membership and integrity in statistical reporting.

Simply put, though I disagree with Hunt on the issue of Calvinism, my disagreements with him on that issue do not negate my respect for him and my belief that he would be a very good convention president. Let me give you four reasons why I think he would make a fine SBC president:

1. Johnny Hunt is a good preacher. What I mean is that, unlike some prominent pastors in the convention, you can always count on Hunt to preach a basically expositional sermon. He is consistently one of the most exegetically sound preachers at the various conferences at which I have heard him speak.

2. Johnny Hunt is widely respected. I know that some younger pastors think he is too traditional and some Calvinists don’t like the fact he doesn’t like Calvinism. But the VAST MAJORITY of Baptists I have known love Hunt and consider him to be a good leader. That counts for a lot in any political contest, even a religious one.

3. Johnny Hunt has a pastor’s heart. I well remember him speaking at Southeastern four years ago and telling us that we will never hear a sermon he has not already preached in some form for his congregation. His reasoning? He is called to pastor FBC Woodstock, not us. How encouraging to see such a well-known speaker putting his local church before all the “important” conferences and chapels.

4. First Baptist Woodstock is one of the most missions-minded churches in the SBC. They have sent out well over 100 missionaries from their church and planted several dozen churches. They are creative in their evangelizing of their community. They are a globally-minded, missional congregation, and I think that every church in the SBC can learn from their example.

In closing, it is without a hint of reservation that I express my excitement that Johnny Hunt will be nominated to be the next president of the SBC. I hope he wins and I trust that, like Frank Page, he will be a statesman at a time when our convention is desperately in need of one.    

Responses

well said..
Steve

Respectfully, how long are we expected to vote the good old boy ticket? CP % low, inactive membership the size of a small town in S GA, political as can be, and this is the SBC you want?

Trainwreck.

Johnny gets my vote

[...] friend, Dr. Nathan Finn has weighed in on the news that Johnny Hunt will be nominated as a candidate for President of the SBC at this [...]

Well said, Nathan.

I, for one, am getting tired of the Calvinist/Non-Calvinists ‘fights’ and the last few posts that you have made accentuate the stupidity of that type of engagement.

I think Johnny Hunt would be a fine president of the SBC with all that that position entails.

[...] On Johnny Hunt and the SBC Presidency: Nathan Finn offers his detailed break down of the pros and cons of Hunt’s candidacy along with an endorsement. This is the most in-depth discussion yet. Dr. Finn seems to have considered all the angles. [...]

Nathan,
Nice job on the breakdown. You have articulated the specifics of Dr. Hunt well. I do know this - his ministry and his messages both reinforce each other. He lives what he preaches before he preaches it.

Nathan,

First, have you noticed what the “possibly related post” suggests? Your post on nominating a layperson for president of the SBC. Per your request, I will be nominating you for president of the SBC (heck, everybody’s doin’ it). ;)

Okay, I’m kidding.

Your article is fairly written. It is tempting to paint Hunt with the words and actions of his past, but you have taken a higher road, and I appreciate that. Hopefully, through the years of conversation and debate, there can be better understanding and willingness to appeal to both truth and love.

Hunt is a well-respected man with a broad network as you have already mentioned. It will be interesting to see who all this plays out. Personally speaking, I don’t know if I can handle another year’s worth of intense drama, so I will watch from the grandstands of sunny south Florida. :)

A comment that reminded me much of 2006 was made by Traylor when he said,

“I don’t think he (Hunt) has given any thought to this until recently, but the last time I discussed it with him, I saw a flicker in his eyes; and I believe God sparked a flame in his soul for this.”

Do you remember reading the language in 2006 of being “divinely appointed” or something of that nature? It was either Hunt or Floyd, and I don’t have the files handy at this moment (my staff of researchers are being lazy).

Anyway, while I affirm that I have real disagreements with Hunt on his treatment of Calvinism and Calvinists as well as the issue of regenerate church membership, should he be elected president of the SBC, he will indeed have a great opportunity to lead by example in many of these areas and serve as a statesmen who reaches across the aisle to those of different theological stripes and reaches out to the younger generation.

Um, I meant to say *how* all this plays out, not who. Sorry man.

Oh, it seems like the hills of southern Tennessee was just too much for my cell phone signal (the TKO factor was in effect). But I promise that whatever I was going to say would have been like talking to ghosts and goblins anyway. ;)

Um, I won’t run in ‘04 or ‘06. However, now that another leading pastor from my state is being nominated, I think I will run this year.

Is that curious to anyone?

Nathan, your endorsement is well-written and I have always admired Dr. Hunt because he sits in the “back” at the convention with his preachers rather than in the “big dog” section up front. Nevertheless, I do find it strange to run this year when Frank Cox has also indicated his intentions.

I didn’t say “wrong” or “improper,” just interesting.

Dr. Finn, you state: “I think that Frank Page has shown that it is possible to be opposed to Calvinist theology and still be a great SBC president, even to all the Calvinists with whom he disagrees. I have no reason to suspect that Johnny Hunt would use his position to throw convention Calvinists under the bus.” On what basis do you make that statement? Hunt uses every opportunity he has, especially when preaching to SBC crowds to “throw convention Calvinists under the bus.” He is perhaps the worst as building the “straw man” and then attacking. I fear that Hunt would not be the fair & balanced president that Frank Page has been. Hunt’s record is just not very encouraging on this issue. I don’t know who I will vote for, but I am certain it will not be for Hunt.

Okay, so I found the quote I was thinking about. It was in Hunt’s press release (no longer available online) where he bows out of the 06 race and nominated Ronnie Floyd. Here is the pertinent portion:

Dr. Floyd called me last Wednesday and informed me that he will humbly accept this nomination due to God speaking to him dramatically through Acts 16:6-10. He never sought it one moment, but was drafted supernaturally to let me nominate him to be our next President.

Maybe it’s just me, but I get a little uneasy when the talk about SBC presidency is about (a) never seeking the position and then (b) getting supernaturally drafted (Floyd) or flicker in his eyes (Hunt).

Timmy,

What does the Macedonian call have to do with running for president of the SBC? If this quote is true, it sounds like the biggest hogwash I’ve ever heard…especially, since he didn’t win the election. Maybe God was speaking through Acts 16 in that passage to speak the Gospel to those who have not heard…which would not be the convention delegates.

Nathan, you wrote a good article for J. Hunt as SBC president. I’m not sure that your confidence in Dr. Hunt to not “throw convention Calvinists under the bus” should be so firm, but maybe that’s just my skeptical side coming out. I know he would make a great president and you gave some good points worth considering! And I will echo Tim’s Comment, you took the high road… and I commend you for that!

Yogi

Charlie,

I remember in 06 that people had much of the same response as you did. The quote, indeed, is accurate.

When I read about the twinkle or flicker in the eye talk, it just reminded me of what was then. It was eerily similar.

Everyone,

This is a test : Would anyone of you vote for Dr. Tom Ascol, Dr. Tom Nettles, or Dr. Roy Hargrave(Largest Calvinistic SBC church) to be president and if yes please let it be known here.

Scott Morgan( Yes, Yes, Yes)

I echo (is it an echo when you’re the third person to repeat?) the sentiments already mentioned about my reservations that Dr. Hunt would represent Calvinists fairly as president of the SBC. I have rarely heard or seen him take the high road that you have taken here, Dr. Finn. Should he be elected, I pray he does, indeed, put those differences aside and seek unity in the proclamation of the Gospel.

Does anyone know if Dr. Mohler might reenter the fray before Indy? I doubt he would do that, but I thought that one of you might know if it was possible.

Nathan;
First, enjoyed breakfast this morning. And the bowtie is nice. Second, I second your conviction about Pastor Johnny. I have known him since 89, when I was a home missionary and he sent, at FBCW’s expense, his evangelism minister and some great laity to our state for a week of outstanding evangelism training. I have watched Johnny love small churches, new work conventions, young pastors, and our seminary. I have been door to door with him in his own neighborhood. I have frightened his wife Janet with a pet python in fact :-).
There are megachurch pastors who build empires, but Johnny is building the Kingdom. I recommended one of my favorite students (yes we have favorites but not with grades!) to be his youth pastor.
We need someone who can inspire folks. We need someone who is passionate about the Great Commission and who has inspired church planting. I agree with you that the others you named are great candidates. And I confess I am prejudiced as Johnny Hunt is one of my all time heroes in ministry. I believe he will seek wise counsel and represent Southern Baptists well.

Nathan,
I echo your sentiments about the CP #s, Dr. Hunt’s ability to lead, his care of pastors, and his seemingly tamer and fairer treatment of Calvinism recently. My real concern is FBCW’s attendance numbers. With regenerate church membership being mentioned over and over as the most important issue facing the convention, I have serious reservations about having a president that pastors a church where only 37% of the membership regularly attends.

With that said, I greatly admire and respect Dr. Hunt, especially for his humility, his preaching, and his passion for the lost. And I agree that he could do many things to bring us together as a convention. That seems vital at this moment in time.

Nathan,

I thoroughly enjoyed briefly meeting and talking with you at the Building Bridges conference last year. Though this posting has nothing to do with Johnny Hunt and is a little late, I would like to weigh in on the gospel and Calvinism issue.

Elements of the gospel are certainly in Calvinism, but Calvinism itself is not the gospel. What, then, is the gospel? It is not the decrees of God in election, predestination and foreordination. They are the planning and preparation for the gospel. The gospel is not union with Christ, justification by faith alone, adoption, or sanctification. These are fruits of the gospel after it comes. It is not acknowledging your sin, repenting, believing, trusting, receiving, confessing, mourning, weeping, coming to Christ, and a host of other actions. These are but responses to the gospel. We must carefully differentiate among the planning, the fruits, and the responses to the gospel and the gospel itself. They are not the one and the same.

The gospel is most clearly stated in 1 Cor. 15:3-4, “. . .that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, and was buried, and rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.” This is the gospel we SBs must return to, fully embrace, and faithfully preach.

Without equivocation and shame, I am a “five-point Calvinist” and I fully subscribe to The London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. Also, I firmly practice and believe it is my responsibility to go into all the world and make disciples of all the peoples. However, my first and foremost allegiance is to the gospel as delineated in 1 Cor. 15:3-4. For 35 years, (33 as a Calvinist), I have believed and preached this truth. From that I, by God’s grace, cannot and will not waver.

Off the subject and late,

Earl M. Blackburn

Thanks to all for the comments.

Scott, I would have no reservation voting for Tom Ascol or Roy Hargrave. While I love Tom Nettles personally, I am not sure I would vote for any currently employed SBC professor. That said, I would vote for many retired SBC professors, including perhaps Tom. But trust me–he’s not planning to run.

Earl, thanks for your off-topic but timely words. I too enjoyed our fellowship at Building Bridges. And I agree wholeheartedly with your comment about distinguishing between the gospel itself and its the fruit, response, etc.

Timmy and Charlie, I agree about God-talk and SBC politics. That said, IMO the phrase “flicker in his eye” is not a big deal, whereas “supernaturally drafted” seems a bit lame (and presumptuous). I get a flicker in my eye every time I bit into a good cheesecake, read about the the history of spiritual awakenings, see my wife and daughter when I come home from work, and watch Knowshon Moreno run for 100+ yards on a rival SEC team. Note: those are not ranked in order of importance. :-)

NAF

Nathan:
Thank you for this important post.
I once heard Johnny Hunt say at SEBTS that he was an “indian on fire” for the Lord Jesus.
Though I don’t agree with everything Johnny Hunt says and does (heck, I don’t with everything my mother says and does) I do believe that he will boldly and unashamedly lift up the name of Jesus in the SBC and wherever he goes as president of the SBC.
The man, I honestly believe, loves Jesus Christ and lost people. May he inspire the rest of us to do the same.

Nathan,

Thank you for your comments. I respect your call about Dr. Nettles since he still is a active professor( A great one according to my friends that have had him).Can I put you on the spot ?? Would you vote for Johnny Hunt or Tom Ascol or Would you vote for Johnny Hunt or Roy Hargrave if they were running. Then why ?? If you are like my neighbor who will not tell me who he is voting for Dems or Republicans . He has an Al Gore bumper sticker so I think I know the answer to that one. Please know that I do not think that whoever you would not vote for does not mean that you don’t like them. We are adults !!

Scott,

Is this necessary? Seriously? You are expressing a hypothetical situation that does not exist and is highly unlikely to exist. As I said in my post, we “judge any field of potential presidents by voting for the best available option among the viable candidates.” In this post, I have done that. I see no value in speculating about non-existent elections involving men who are not interested in being nominated. In any election, I vote for the nominee who I think is best for the convention at that specific moment in time. At this moment in time, the nominee I feel that way about is Johnny Hunt. I think that is saying enough.

NAF

Nathan,

I agree with your point !! Seriously !! I have no problem at all with you voting for Johnny Hunt if you feel he is the best candidate at the moment. I know clearly I was throwing something at you that was not reality at this point so your answer does not offend me nor do I think you are dodging my question.

My question was a loaded one as I know that you know. Since I don’t have the privlage of being in front of you to chat on somewhat of a regular basis I thought I would ask and it took you thirty seconds to answer my question anyway. The reason for my loaded question is this: I’m finding SBC Baptistic Calvinist in two camps according to the blogs. There are some who say that they want to have a convention with noncalvinist/calvinist and hopefully we can all accomplish the same goal though we differ alot on the doctrine of salvation and church doctrine. Then we have those that would love to see the convention totally turn fully calvinistic and everybody else is just wrong(Kidding) . Thanks for answering my question. Talk to you soon !! BTW, you are the man for the Bowtie !! My wife said you got guts !!!

Ksmith, I agree with you 100%. The instant I heard Johnny was running I thought it was really peculiar given that Frank Cox has shown so much interest, even forming frankcox.org. I was led to believe that these men were fairly close. In fact, while I was a member at Frank’s church, I was told by a member at FBCW that Johnny Hunt acknowledged that Frank would be the president of the SBC one day.

As it concerns calvinistic theology, rest assured neither of these men look favorably on it. However, even though what appears to be a good relationship with Ergun Caner concerns me, I have never known Frank to be a venomous anti-calvinist like a few in the convention.

BTW, one of the reasons why I left North Metro is that, because of my calvinistic theology, I was denied any opportunity to serve in a teaching ministry. I was told I would make a very good teacher and there were absolutely no moral concerns about me, but that it would probably be best if I looked to minister in a church that would give me full freedom to express my convictions. I accepted this very graciously and understand to this day why they felt this was necessary. In fact, I still believe Richard Brown, then Minister of Education, did this out of love for both me and the congregation.

Others wanted me to fight and argue my way into acceptance, but I just didn’t see the point. As long as the leadership of the church believed that my theology was dangerous, they had a responsibility to act in the manner they did. I offered to have discussions about why I believed as I did to see if we could come to an understanding, but that offer was not accepted, maybe out of fear that I just wanted to be argumentative like a lot of my calvinistic brethren.

I don’t know enough about FBC Woodstock to really understand how these two men differ. It does appear that Frank is more the CP guy, whereas Johnny has led his church to be more directly involved in missions and church planting. Frank used to take a few minutes prior to every offering and highlight a work that was being supported by the CP. From what I’ve seen recently, I think he may be leading North Metro to be more directly involved in missions alongside their CP giving.

Nathan, I’m afraid I cannot agree with you on your lack of concern over Johnny’s stance on calvinism. His decision to not allow staff members that believe as we do just shows a commitment to his convictions. His public butchering and dishonest handling of the truth of the doctrines of grace is an entirely different matter. If these are our two best choices, my choice would clearly be for Frank Cox.

Nathan,

I also have to agree with Bill though I would disagree with Bill on one thing: I wouldn’t vote for Johnny or Frank but they are good guys . I have serious theological and methodolgy differences with both and I know them both very well. I have had lunch with Frank a couple of times and I live twenty minutes from his church but they both love Christ and are good guys but I would not vote for them and I’m actually upset with some of our Calvinist guys because they won’t run for president and also I really think we Calvinist ought to ” Hush ” if we are not willing to nominate someone. We are guility of this ” Big time”. And this one gets me ” A Calvinist wouldn’t win anyway “. So, as I tell them and that’s not the point. Calvinist either need to nominate someone or hush.

Scott,

I share your concern that we don’t have good Calvinist brothers running. I understand their initial fears that “a Calvinist wouldn’t win” but, good grief, do we believe God is sovereign or don’t we? If God can send little guys up against giants with a few stones, or by putting singers first against great armies, is this too great a task for Him if He should so choose?

Even looking at this pragmatically, has anyone ever heard of the signigicance of voter turnout in elections? It would seem that all these “young, restless and reformed” graduates from our seminaries would see a tremendous opportunity in the SBC instead of fearing supposed Goliaths. If all of our Reformed pastors would focus on growing their own churches rather than worrying about association leaders, and then taking messengers to the big party, maybe God would send a message of His own.

But I’m just a lame man…uh….I mean layman. So what do I know.

Bill,

I have asked two leaders questions that people would consider leaders among Baptistic Calvinists and they will not even answer certain questions. They require basic Yes or No answers. I’m not talking about Nathan Finn !!! Both of these men knew my questions were loaded but I asked the questions to get answers (but also) to prove a point that myself and a few others are seeing among the Baptistic Calvinist Brethren .

This is why I and others are so high on Dr. Roy Hargrave because he will answer questions whether you like the answer or not. He is apolitical !!! He sees the compromise even among the Calvinist and he is a Calvinist. Roy always taught me when God opened my eyes to the doctrines of grace and Baptistic church doctrine that I would pay a price if I stood for them and I did but I’m thankful that God gave me strength and a wife to carry me through the storms. I have been in the megachurch scene from the time I was 20yrs old until I turned 33yrs old and I saw how men would stand for their buddies rather than truth. I see men who preach one thing to one crowd but will not say the same to others. Again, Roy taught me so much and did not lie to me and I remember his words ” You will loose friends, ministry positions, and people will think you are crazy even your own mom and dad. My parents still today can’t understand how I could leave a well paying ministry positions at SBC megachurches and nice benefits to pastoring 60 people and our church meets in a place called Papa Jacks country restaurant. My wife went to work as a fourth grade teacher in our county( Please no homeschooling jabs at me Bill) and we are both so happy and fufilled. I’m tired of some of our Calvinist guys telling us about doctrine and the gospel but they will not speak out publicly on things. Again, Roy Hargrave does and he has a pastoral staff that does and they see his passion and love for Jesus and not to be a denominational ” Please all men type of guy” . Nathan, is right when he says I’m voting on what is in front of me. He is not wrong with that because until we give Nathan and others something else we probably ought to hush like I’m doing right now.

Scott,

You obviously have thought quite a bit about this stuff, have firm opinions, and have a lot to say. Have you considered starting your own blog? Your comments here are longer than 3/4 of my posts.

NAF

Scott said,

Calvinist either need to nominate someone or hush.

Whaaa? Are you serious Scott? Please tell me you are joking.

Since when was it a requirement that, if you are a Calvinist in the SBC, you have to have political representation at a denominational level? Most Calvinists, I would argue, are not like you and do not care about who is the next president of the SBC (we will be doing good just to keep most of them within the SBC to begin with).

To make the issue of having a Calvinist nominated as a president of the SBC and then telling Calvinists who don’t think the way you do to hush is, well, contemptible to say the least. Attempting to make denominational politics a litmus test or prerequisite for being a Southern Baptist Calvinist is a most unappealing proposition.

So, would Roy accept a nomination? Certainly nobody could accuse him of having a non-mission minded, dead calvinist church. I would be curious to know what kind of price he has paid for his theology. He certainly hasn’t hid it but his church seems to be thriving, numerically and otherwise.

I loved the title and the info in “An Idol Called Evangelism” by the way. That title could get you hung. I never did get his book on evangelism, though I intend to.

Scott, I wouldn’t think of jabbing you for sending your kids to public school. If you want to send your wife and kids off to Nero that’s o.k. :-)
Seriously, people think Providence Duluth, GA is a “homeschool church”, but we have several in public and private schools as well, and we let them all join in our “reindeer games”.

Nathan,

Some of my post are longer than Gene Bridges and that is saying something(Ha Ha). You have a kind way of saying things. I read real good between the lines. As for my own blog : I wish but I’m a horrible writer however, my wife is a English major but she is so busy putting up with me, job, kids, and our new dog. Maybe you could send me a book for taking up 3/4 of your blog post. Have a great day and great weekend !!

Timmy,

Are you sure Calvinist don’t care about the SBC president ??? Interesting because I got an email two nights ago from someone you know real well that said:

To: Scott Morgan

From : ___________

Subject: FYI Johnny Hunt Being Nominated For SBC President

Wonder why it was sent to me ??? That person didn’t think I would care about this subject ??? If the SBC president was not on their radar screen why would they take the time to sent it to me ? Also, your words are not the words that I heard from this person or the emails about it. I don’t find it funny but sad that of all people on the blogs that you can say what you did to me that “Most Calvinist don’t care who the next president is”. These are your words. Well I guess I’m blind at all the comments that were made on the Founders Blog about Johnny Hunt being nominated for President( 300 something comments ????). I had several and so did Ergun caner but not that many. You have never showed any interest at all about denominational positions or made any comments about Johnny or any potential candidates. Are you sure Timmy ???? I will say no more on this. Blessings on your new adventure and hope it goes well.

Scott,

I am not saying that Calvinists don’t have an opinion about the SBC presidency or Johnny Hunt for that matter. What I am saying is that they do not make their opinions a call to action.

I don’t know. Maybe it is the bubble of SBTS that I have been living in. But among the Reformed brothers I know, they are talking about church planting, theological education, and church revitalization, not how to develop a strategy to get a Calvinist nominated for president of the SBC.

The loaded questions and agenda you are pushing here confirms in the minds of non-Calvinist the talking point about Calvinists being “militant and aggressive.” I would rather just not give them justification for their caricatures and misrepresentations.

Timmy,

I will break my statement and I will comment again. Drop the militant and aggressive statements. They are not needed here nor would I say that about you .I don’t know how you would evaluate your exchange with Malcolm(Aggressive and militant). “Why I would not vote for Malcolm Yarnell’s resolution.” Sounds pretty strong and aggressive toward a noncalvinist to me. Be careful that you don’t become the corrector of the brethren but give yourself a free pass. The Baptistic Calvinist Brothers I hang around talk about the same things you mentioned as well. We talk about alot of things like outreach and evangelism as well. For an example our church has done three major outreach events this year passing out Bibles, one one sharing of the gospel , visiting our guests with the attempt to share the gospel, we have done two mission offerings and we talk about Baptistic church doctrine: Regenerate church membership, church discipline, proper baptism, Lord’s Supper and etc…. . I’m with you on these things and to the core.

My point was that we ( SBC Calvinist are hypocritical) when we talk on our blogs or whereever about SBC (wide) changes and we complain(And for right reasons) but fail to take action . This is not being militant or aggressive but being part of the means God uses to bring about change. You accuse me or came across that way by suggesting with your comments that all I care about is getting a Calvinist to be SBC president. I hope we will one day but this is not going to fix our problems in our churches but it could help with one that is vocal.

Do you think Malcolm Yarnell views you as aggressive or militant ? Do you think Peter Lumpkins views you this way ? I know the answer of these men about you because they have said so to me personally. However, I think that they got it wrong because I see a passionate person in you that fights for truth and the same goes for me. BTW, please pray for our church because we our having a huge cookout of food and giveaway of Bibles, Gospel presentation on CD’s , and church info on June 7 at my neighborhood pool. Pray for the salvation of my neighbors. Dr. Roy Hargrave and Riverbend Community Church are supporting this event with our church and we have partnered in missions. We actually give mission support to Riverbend and SBC causes. Hope your move goes smoothly. You see Alabama and Auburn can’t get along (Ha Ha).

Scott and Timmy,

Email was invented for conversations just like the one you are currently having. Thanks.

NAF

Email is a beautiful thing.

Nathan,

Sorry my friend. Lesson learned.

I’m wasn’t suggesting for a moment that the cure for what hinders the SBC is a Calvinistic President. What I am saying is that, given the choice between a godly candidate who understands and believes the doctrines of grace and a godly candidate who does not, I would choose the first. The primary reason for that is , generally speaking, and I emphasize generally, where you stand on that issue impacts the level to which one relies on the power of the Holy Spirit in ministry versus sentimental appeals, marketing gimmicks, professional entertainment, etc., etc.

I’m also getting very tired of what appears to be a growing pessimism regarding the future of the SBC. I believe a lot of reformed guys are being very inconsistant in their theology in this matter. If God’s plan is to write “Ichabod” over the SBC, then so be it. But until we’re convinced that He’s done that, there is all the reason in the world to expect that He will continue to awaken many to His truth, potentially, over the period of many years, bringing change that will cause us all to look back in amazement.

Dr. Finn:

I was grateful (if somewhat surprised) by your endorsement of Dr. Johnny Hunt for SBC President. Without getting into a number of the issues — like Calvinist/Non-Calvinist or Church Membership — I can tell you a little about the man and his ministry.

I first met Dr. Hunt when he was Pastor of Long Leaf Baptist Church in Wilmington, NC, in 1985. They had led the state in baptism’s two straight years, and he spoke for only five minutes from the convention platform. I was a journalism student at Wingate College (now University) at the time, and I knew I had to meet this man! He was indeed on fire!

I followed his ministry as he moved to Woodstock in 1986, and as his church has exploded over the past two decades. I’ve visited his church on several ocassions, attended several conferences there, and I’ve benefitted greatly from the Timothy-Barnabas Pastor’s school I attended in 2001.

I often listen to his messages. They are always exegetically sound, never boring, and with the ultimate priority of winning souls and equipping the saints for the work of ministry. The most impressive thing about Johnny Hunt, however, is that he’s never gotten over being saved.

I once heard him say, “I’m glad I’m saved, and I never got over it!” That characteristic is sorely lacking in so many Christian lives today, replaced by cynicism and doubt — even, and perhaps especially, in our pulpits.

I’ve no doubt that God’s hand is on Dr. Johnny Hunt. I’m glad he has been my friend — as he has been to so many others in ministry throughout the years. I can say without reservation that Johnny will be an anointed and humble leader of the SBC, should he be chosen for the task.

Thank you for your even handed presentation of your support for Dr. Hunt. And thank you for your spirit of cooperation — despite differences. That’s the way Christians can and must reach the world.

Blessings,

J. Dale Weaver, M. Div.

Yet another nominee, Les Puryear:

http://www.bpnews.net/BPnews.asp?ID=28036

[...] On Johnny Hunt and the SBC Presidency « The Fullness of Time [...]

Leave a response

Your response:

Categories