Posted by: nathanfinn | May 19, 2008

The Questions Young Future Leaders are Asking

There is quite a bit of intra-SBC debate over what exactly constitutes a “young leader” in the Southern Baptist Convention. Some folks apparently use this terminology to mean any younger SBC pastor, staff member, missionary, or professor. I suppose this is true in a sense–anyone who is serving in a “vocational ministry” (for lack of a better term) is a leader. With this understanding, the claim is most certainly true that the SBC is losing many younger leaders. But this is a pretty wide usage of the word “leader.”

Others use the term “young leader” to mean younger Southern Baptists who are widely recognized to be leaders in the convention. In this usage, a young leader pastors a prominent and growing church, or is a widely respected professor or missionary, and has probably served in some appointed position within the convention (a trustee board, committee, etc.). The problem with using “leader” in this way is that it is also too broad–who determines which churches are prominent and which young bureaucrats are gifted?

Both of these usages point to what I think is the heart of the matter: for may people, a “young leader” is someone younger than you whom you like. So some Southern Baptists are concerned that we are losing “young leaders” because some of their friends have left. Others want to know which “young leaders” we are losing because all of their peeps are still around. This leads to folks talking past each other.

I’m sure there are also other ways the term “young leader” is being used, but I think its enough to begin this post by acknowledging that there is no one way Southern Baptists use the term. What a surprise to find diversity in the Southern Baptist Convention!

For the record, I’m going to try to clarify how I am using the term “young leader” in future posts, because, frankly, I have used the phrase in both of the above ways.In this post, I’m thinking of young collegians at Southeastern. Almost all of them will go on to be leaders in the first sense. Many of them may be leaders in the second sense.

Every semester I spend the last night of my Baptist History and Distinctives class taking open questions from the class related to current events in the Southern Baptist Convention. I promise the class I will be honest with them, though I tell them I cannot guarantee they will agree with my answers. Many students have remarked that the Q&A is the most interesting 75 minutes of the semester. Anyway, having now taught this class for two years, I thought I would share the questions most frequently asked by some younger future leaders in the SBC. The questions are more or less in their order of frequency, not importance.

1. What is all the fuss about at the International Mission Board? (Variation: What do you [NAF] think about the new IMB rules?) (Variation 2: Is there really a problem with missionaries who are speaking in tongues?)

2. Will the SBC split over Calvinism? (Variation: Do you think they will “kick out” all the Calvinists one day?)

3. Will the SBC still be around in X number of years? (There is variation in the number of years, depending upon who’s asking the question. The most common time frame is ten years.)

4. What do you [NAF] think is the biggest issue in the SBC?

5. When will the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina become really conservative? (Variation: Is there any hope for the Biblical Recorder?)

6. I’m not a cessasionist–is there a place for me in the SBC? (Variation: I don’t have a problem with speaking in tongues, but I don’t personally do it–can I be a missionary?)

7. Why is the SBC so obsessed with alcohol? (There are a lot of variations on this question.)

8. How would you [NAF] lead a church to begin practicing church discipline?

9. What do you think about SBC churches that do not use “Baptist” in their name?

10. What do you think about the Acts 29 Network? (Variation: What does “the SBC” think about the emerging church movement?)

11. Why is our convention “run” by megachurch pastors while small church pastors are virtually ignored? (Variation: Why do the same 10 guys preach at all the conferences?)

12. Who will be the next president of the SBC?

13. Is Duke Divinity School liberal? (Duke is about 30 miles down the road.)

14. Is the CBF going to die out? (Variation: Will the CBF ever “return” to the SBC?)

15. Is it true that you said on your blog that __________________? (Endless variations!)

There are certainly other questions. Almost every semester I am asked what I believe about an array of doctrines and several practices. But the above list summarizes the most frequently asked questions about the SBC (and related issues), to the best of my recollection. I don’t know what the future young leaders are asking at our sister institutions, but these are the things at least some of them are asking here.

Responses

No fair giving the questions without the answers. :-)

Bro. Bart.

I may give some answers (opinions) later, but for now, I am interested in hearing what others think about the questions!

NAF

I have gone through the college at Southeastern and am now in the Seminary. Those are definitely a lot of the same questions that I’ve pondered myself.

Yeah, I’m a young (24) leader in the first sense of the term you mentioned (definitely not the second), and those are many of the issues I’ve pondered as well.

I think one of the major issues underlying several of the questions is that of biblical consistency. I grew up as the pendulum swung back and the conservatives “took back” the convention. This resurgence was driven by a call for biblical faithfulness. I was taught not to simply believe what authority figures said, but to look to scripture as the final authority.

I think many young SBC leaders might be taking this idea farther than our elders might have liked. By looking to scripture as our primary authority many young leaders are ignoring even conservative late 20th century SBC tradition and seeing in scripture the doctrines of grace, a different attitude about alcohol, the importance of spiritual gifts and the importance of authentic community.

There are also cultural elements at work in the younger generation. We are influenced by media, technology, celebrity culture and postmodernity in ways we’ve yet to fully realize.

It seems that my generation is less inclined to traditional authority and is up for making new alliances and partnerships, thus the Acts 29, church planting networks, partnership.

I think the structure of the SBC could be ripe for a postmodern generation of conservative Christ followers. A key element could be local associations. In my community I’m seeing numerous voluntary associations of ministers (I’m a part of a youth ministry network) that are very useful. Which leads me to another point I’d like to mention.

It seems like many young leaders in the convention want to change the entire SBC right now or they simply abandon it. This leads to more factionalism and a decrease in cooperation. I believe we should be faithful in our local churches and associations, pour ourselves into the ministry and have a positive impact on the convention on the grassroots level. If older leaders see us taking them seriously and working hard, they will take us seriously.

Random thoughts, but thanks for the post.

Nathan,

I don’t think any of the young guys want to speak presumptuously as qualifying as “young leader”; nevertheless, I think many young folk have questions that they have a hard time finding answers.

For instance:

1. I love and appreciate the way we support missions through the Cooperative Program. But why are we not being more fiscally responsible with the money given by the churches to support mission work?

2. Why are we duplicating efforts in our SBC bureaucracy (that is, through national, state, and associational levels)? Are state conventions, given that they eat up so much of the CP, really necessary?

3. Why are the elders of the CR fighting over non-essential matters and dividing conservatives over issues that manifest our lack of commitment to the sufficiency and authority of Scripture?

4. What’s up with the anti-ecumenical movement that seeks to turn the SBC into a denominational island?

5. Will there be more messengers at the 2008 Annual Meeting in Indy than the young folk who attended this year’s T4G? If not, what does say to the SBC?

6. Why are measures being taken to make it even more difficult for young ministers to be placed in local churches? (by that I mean issues like the ultimatums against Calvinists and the application forms including one’s position on alcohol)

7. Why do we have to be known all the time for what we are against rally than what we are for?

8. Who are going to be our role models and examples within the SBC? (all my friends, myself included, have very few “old leaders” whom we look up to in the SBC)

9. Is there a church or pastor who would be willing to invest in me and help me develop ministerial skills and learn pastoral responsibilities in a local church?

10. Will there come a day when the questions we will ask will address the possibilities of the future rather than the problems of the past?

A few for starters . . .

I agree with Bart Barber. I would love to hear some answers to these questions.

On question 1, I do not like the way the IMB policy issue has been argued in an all or nothing sense.
There are some who object to the entirety of the policies. There are others, such as myself, who object only to the “eternal security” clause.

The problem for me is that all the focus has been on PPL’s and so little legitimate debate has occurred about the relationship between believer’s baptism and eternal security. Your variation of the question, though likely unintentional, is a reminder that when most people think about the IMB policy issue they immediately think of tongues and forget the baptism policy (I mean, of course, “guidelines” :-) )

Sorry, I realize these are students questions and not your questions. My wording did not make that clear. What I meant to say is that the variation of the question appears as a question about tongues and not about baptism.

Nathan,

It’s never too late for the Holy Spirit to convict Hearts of the Born from Above Christian and Answered Prayer.
God is Faithful in answering Prayers that have Been lifted Up for 17 years. OUR prayer was answered this past Sunday.

I and many other Christians that I know have followed Dr, Charles Stanley for many years. I being of Reformed belief have held Dr. Stanley Ministry in higher regards than some Reformed Ministries. Dr. Stanley has never Preached the full Gospel until today Sunday May 18, 2008. I rejoice and Praise the Lord for Dr Stanley’s preaching on God’s Grace and being Predestinated Before the Foundation of the World. I have shared this past year how my mother taught me about The Lamb’s Book of Life. Ephesians 1:4. Listen to Dr Charles Stanley’s online Sermon and tell me what you think.

http://www.intouch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=dhKHIXPKIuE&b=3813569&content_id={C2B9A22C-69B4-4BF1-9B32-B5F9DE08A004}&notoc=1

Wayne Smith

Lots of questions, good ones at that. Nathan, maybe if you could pick a few (or even one) to discuss, I’m sure a lot of these ‘young leaders’ would be chomping at the bit to talk.

I think it would be more fun to guess your answers :)

I have to agree; one of my favorite parts of your class was the Q & A. I’d be really interested to hear your answer to #13. Though I do know you object to the general use of the word “liberal”.

[...] Finn has listed some of the frequent questions his students ask about the SBC. Related [...]

Huh. I would have thought you would heart at least two others:

1) Why do Southern Baptists feel it’s a godly thing to put forward a facade of uniformity and silence any dissenting positions?
(I’m not just talking about the IMB. It seems every church building program I have ever witnessed has intially been presented as the “unanimous recommendation of the deacon board” only to hear later that there were dissenters.)

2) Is it true that bloggers are the anti-christ? :-)

My question I have pondered for some time now is when are these “Older” leaders in the SBC are going to realize that it is time to mentor the “Younger” up and coming leaders? This may cause unity between the two generations. That way instead of worrying about who will take over the SBC we can begin to train the people that can step in and continue the long legacy set forth by our forefathers?

“Many students have remarked that the Q&A is the most interesting 75 minutes of the semester.”

Hmmm… I was going to rag on you for that but then I remembered taking that course. Probably was.

I think the fact that these questions come up some often with such uniformity means more than we realize. If you’re asking will the SBC be around in X years, will there be another split over Calvinism, why is this minor doctrine or that cultural practice being used as a litmus test, then the level of trust in the organization now and in the future is dangerously low.

YMMV,

David

I’m a 28 year old grad of SWBTS, who currently works with the IMB, but plans on pursuing Ph.D. work in the future.

I agree that these are questions we are asking, but some of us have moved beyond them as well. I guess it depends on your context. For instance, on the alcohol issue, I don’t partake due to working for the IMB, but I have no problems with my friends who do. Furthermore, if I didn’t work for the IMB I probably would as well. It’s not an issue worth fighting over or a question even worth asking in my opinion. Most younger churches simply don’t take a stance on these issues anymore because they don’t have to…it’s not an issue for the younger generation like it was to the generations before us. I know some people won’t like that answer, but it’s simply reality.

As for Duke, I think the above question isn’t a good one to be asking. We should instead be asking, “Can I get a top-tier education in [pick your field of study] at Duke Divinity?” or “Will I be a better informed believer if I were to study at Duke versus if I were to study at [pick your school]?” or “Would a degree from Duke increase or decrease my opportunities for ministry versus [another school]?”

I think it’s fairly unanimous that Duke Divinity has some of the world’s top biblical scholars (some of which are conservative, some of which are not), and that particularly in the field of New Testament it is one of America’s premier schools. Does that mean I agree with everything they teach? Of course not, but I would hope that I wouldn’t simply choose a school that lined up with my convictions! I would prefer to have my convictions challenged and stretched in new directions.

Personally, I think we need more of our finest students going to Emory, Duke, Drew, etc. because it proves that we have fine scholars as well and can hold our own among the nation’s top-tier divinity schools.

I think Caleb hit the nail on the head. Most of those questions highlight a difference of opinion between ‘older’ and ‘younger’ baptists, and those differences seem to come down to how far you are willing to take biblical faithfulness. Younger SBCers seem to be much more willing to go against the ‘party line’ in order to try to work out biblical faithfulness, and this seems to be where much of the dissention comes from.

Obviously, I’m not saying that the ‘older’ generation doesn’t want to adhere wholeheartedly to biblical faithfulness. But I also think it’s obvious that there are some issues (alchohol, namely) that are railed against simply because it has been a “Baptist” issue for so long and not because it adheres to the biblical witness. In other words, there are some blinders due to tradition among the older generation.

We as young people have blinders, too, namely a willingness to reject authority. So perhaps some of our dissention on these issues really doesn’t come down to trying to be biblically faithful but to ‘rebelling’ against some of the less appealing traditions of our elders.

Both generations need to be aware of the blinders we have, do our best to remove them, and try to be biblically faithful in all areas of life. I think that is the only way you’re going to see the “young leaders” stick around.

I started writing out a long comment, but decided to erase it. I was going to bullet-point share my opinions on some of these issues, but have decided against it–the risk is too great that I will be misunderstood or misquoted. So, I will engage some of these questions in posts. Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

NAF

Nathan,

Respectfully stated, you have greatly underestimated the aptitude that we all have for misunderstanding and misquotation—we’re just as capable of applying these tools to your posts as we are of applying them to your comments. ;-)

I just think that it’s great to see a Baptist who has a tag category entitled, “Booze.” Love it!

CAJ

Nathan,

I came across your blog and found this post rather interesting. I had a couple of thoughts, but in making those I need to identify myself as a young Baptist (25) who identifies with CBF.

To address the Duke question, one resource to look into is the Duke Socratic Club. This past spring, they had a lecture series on “Duke Theology,” seeking to answer questions of the some of the major influences upon the school’s theological trajectory, as well as what it seems to react against. (The series involves figures such as Schleiermacher, Barth, the Niebuhrs, the “Yale School”, Hauerwas, and some other streams that are present, with the major exception of Wesley.) A link the audio from this is: http://dukesocraticclub.blogspot.com/2008/04/socratic-audio-files.html

Your posts on Steve Harmon’s work and others in the Baptist Manifesto conversation share some that is occurring among the discussions of Baptist students that attend Duke.

In regards to the question on CBF and whether they will come back, one place to look is to see the difference in language between both SBC and CBF. By this, I’m referring to the conversation occurring within both organizations, such as the language and discussions at the IMB and in CBF global missions, or between pastors with different identities. From my conversation with various CBF young leaders, they sense this difference in language and at this point are more interested in thinking towards the future of CBF rather than any sort of reunification. For example, some of the points you raised that are prevalent in SBC discussions are not as prevalent among CBF, such as the IMB and Calvinism (though the question about alcohol is discussed some. As a sidenote, the Spring 08 Criswell Theological Review revolves around Christians and Alcohol, including an article by Bill Leonard on Baptists and alcohol across their history.)

[...] Posted by jimhamilton on May 21, 2008 I very much enjoyed Prof Nathan Finn’s address at the recent Building Bridges Conference, and I’m glad to see that he is now giving straight answers to questions younger leaders are asking. [...]

[...] on an excellent series by answering questions young Southern Baptists are asking called “Unplugged“.  Nathan has continually written the best articles on the internet regarding SBC life (see [...]

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